Will any MP3 player ever catch Apple’s iPod? | iLounge Article


Will any MP3 player ever catch Apple’s iPod?

The announcement a few weeks ago of the first proper cross-platform iPod (the first ever iPod for both Windows and Mac in one) along with the iTunes music store pushed forward the fact that the iPod is the best selling mp3 player in the world.

Market share is the main problem that Apple has right now across the market, apart from in the MP3 sector where they are dominating. “The competition hasn’t even caught up with our first generation iPod, and we’re introducing our third generation, ” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. And he is exactly right, companies like Creative are still clambering around to get a piece of the MP3 action, but so far no one has managed to do it with the style that Apple has.

So what is the key to the success of the iPod? Well there are many reasons, the main one being the great slim line look that it has had since its first beginnings which manages to attract people who haven’t even thought about purchasing an MP3 player before. It is easily the best-designed mp3 player around at this moment. And it is currently the smallest and lightest hard-drive based mp3 player in the world, with the old iPod coming in second there. The size of the iPod is even more back/front pocket friendly than the last one measuring in at 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.62 inches and weighing just 5.6 ounces.

Enough about the looks, what about the features? The new iPod can hold up to 7500 songs on the hard-drive (assuming you purchase the 30 Gigabyte model and record in 128Kbps) with the iPod delivering the highest sound quality from input to output. The iPod supports all of the most popular audio formats like WAV, MP3 and VBR MP3 along with being the only current portable player that can play back digital music in the AAC format, which creates CD-quality audio and smaller file sizes than MP3.

Not only is the iPod the best music player in the world, it also has a number of other secondary features that draw the public into buying it. There are notes, contact lists, alarms, clocks, calendars and 3 games inside the iPod that sync with your computer. I can see the next version of the iPod enhancing these features even more as some of the notes are stored in a basic HTML format, which could lead to some interesting stuff coming out from Apple later on. There is also a built in Microphone that allows you to record 6 seconds of speech, although nothing much has been said about this by Apple, it does lead us to believe that in a later firmware update you may well be able to use the iPod as a dictation device.

Another feature is that you can use the iPod to save your files from your Mac/Windows machines and transfer them around, kind of like a ZIP drive. Finally we now have the compatibility part ? the iPod works on both the Mac and Windows ? great news for everyone, nearly every feature is available for the Windows user, apart from iTunes music store, but even that is likely to be available at the end of the year.

So who are the contenders after Apple’s MP3 crown? Well we have Creative, they have been around on the MP3 scene for some time, but so far the Nomad hasn’t made the headway they would have liked and the introduction of the Nomad Jukebox Zen doesn’t look like it will make much difference either. There has been talk that Microsoft is working on an MP3 player for release next year, but so far that is all there is on it, a rumour.

So it does seem like Apple will dominate the MP3 player market for some time, and rightly so. They have released a product that not only looks great, but it works fantastically well too.

The new iPods are available in three models: a 10GB model for $299 (US), a 15GB model for $399 (US) and a 30GB model for $499 (US). They have also just been released in Europe.

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im still leaning towards the iPod but I have come across a few articles and potential iPod killers… some are very tempting.

MP3 Insider: iPod killers coming soon (2-12-03)

Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen (60GB, USB 2.0)

Philips HDD100

Posted by 2000NB18T on May 13, 2003 at 5:16 PM (CDT)


The ipod is undoubtedly the leader, and it’s definitely the best designed, but I think your comments are a bit biased.  Though the Zen market share is much lower, you have to give them credit for packing in a number of features the ipod does not have for a lower cost.  True, it’s ugly and big, but arguably functionality has far surpassed the ipod. 

The ipod itself has a ways to go.  There are numerous reports of bugs in this new release (resets, clicks, etc.), and it’s just not well-integrated with the pc (no charging while syncing, incompatible firewire cards, MMJB).  I think it’s too early too call it an insurmountable lead.

Posted by Albert in CA on May 13, 2003 at 6:43 PM (CDT)


Hey Albert,
There are incompatible card problems for every pc device and very very few third party devices are “well” integrated with the pc because there are too many hands in the cookie jar!

I work with both pc’s and macs all the live long day, and Macs rule! It took me 10 minutes the first time I ever used a Mac to see how infinitely better they are and to switch. I only know one person who’s ever used a mac that likes windows better and I think he has mental probs.

P.S. The iPod does have an insurmountable lead, because despite the pitful way that pc’s work with iPods (and most other third party devices), Windows users are buying them up like HOT CAKES! Which is great for me since I own stock in Apple!!!!!! YEEEEEE HAWWW!!!!!!

I own the very very first model iPod and have used it hard every day for about a year and a half now and it ROCKS HARD! Every single day! I’ve had to reset it 5 times in all the time I’ve owned it. Not too shabby I think.

Like the new version, mine had some bugs when it was brand new, however Apple listens to its end users and has released very well targeted software updates that have eliminated all the probs. This will likely happen with the new one too.

This is coming from a guy who thinks the Zen is kinda cool. But c’mon man! It’s not even close! How can you say that an mp3 player that’s Ugly and Big could have better functionality than a small elegant one that’s easy as hell to operate?

P.P.S. How many times did your windows XP machine tell you that new security updates for this or that had been downloaded to your PC and were ready to be installed?

Posted by sillycar on May 13, 2003 at 7:03 PM (CDT)



Having just purchased one of the new iPods I haven’t had a single problem with connecting/compatibility with my PC.  The iPod definitely charges while I’m sync-ed up, I imagine it doesn’t for some because they are using a 4-pin FW connection and thus their fire-wire ports are not powered (and therefore cannot charge).  Also, while I dislike MMJB as a product it’s been perfect to use with the iPod, not problems whatsoever.

Sillycar, ugh ... why bring a stupid Windows v Apple debate in when you’re commenting on mp3 players.  I understand how proud you are of your Mac, but to make broad generalisations such as:

“I only know one person who’s ever used a mac that likes windows better and I think he has mental probs.”

... is totally ridiculous, I will admit that the iPod is better as a whole package than any other mp3 player I’ve dealt with.


Posted by Max in Australia on May 14, 2003 at 9:25 PM (CDT)


Way before the IPOD there was a 20GB monster called the PJB100 which was clearly marred by poor product placement and became a very techy only device. What boosted it was its ease of use and open source coding. The development front is superb and although production has now stopped the device has a loyal following that keep quiet as it is their little secret. I have now got to the point where I needed to upgrade and though I could just stick a 60GB drive in my PJB and it would still work I have plumped for the new 30GB IPOD. I expect big things. I just wanted to let you know there was a player to match (beat) the Ipod it is just no one knew about it :)

Posted by Robert Perkins in Oxford (UK) on May 15, 2003 at 8:29 AM (CDT)



Are you the same Max who spent 4.5 hours trying to sync his new iPod to his pc? Come on now, fess up… I read a post by a Max that said he had all kinds of trouble and was at his wits end.


check out that page to see what I am referring to if it is not you.

Comparing the iPod to other Mp3 players is a lot like comparing Macs to PC’s and the statement I made is not a generalization, it’s a fact. I have never met anyone who’s ever used a mac that liked windows better except one and he may really be crazy!

Yes, I am proud to own a Mac. So much so that I bought stock in the company.
Are you proud of your PC?
Would you buy stock in whichever of the thousands of windows PC manufacturers built your machine?

Posted by sillycar on May 15, 2003 at 12:38 PM (CDT)


Clearly anything *can* be beat… but will it? I suspect iPOD will be beat but it will take time since PC centric companies are slow on the draw. That said someone has to come up with a small MP3 player that has WORLD CLASS (read: classy art NOT cheap plastic faux “modern) looks, huge hard drive with FM radio, and WORLD CLASS SOFTWEAR for the PC. Can it be done? Sure… will it? Maybe.

Posted by Dave in Chicago on May 16, 2003 at 1:03 PM (CDT)


Don’t want to start a big comparison debate, but I don’t think the original article was written based on actual experience of using the alternatives.
1. Archos can show photos/videos
2. Zen plays mixed CD tracks gaplessly. Last Ipod couldn’t. Can the new iPod do this?)
3. Jukebox3 has two removable battery slots. 22 hours of play. And much better sound management (not the gimmicky bits, but e.g. the compression for loud environments, such as cars/planes)

I know each of the above players can also be faulted very easily. But it’s important to recognise that for many people the Ipod can be bettered, in fundamental features.
I think the new Ipod is an absolute classic. Beautiful. For me I’d buy one if I knew that point (2) above was fixed.

Posted by RBH on May 16, 2003 at 1:53 PM (CDT)



that brings back memories of me in high school saving to get that thing. <tear> but i am a proud owner of the original 5 GB iPod.

Posted by bc on May 19, 2003 at 4:11 PM (CDT)


For lots of people it is always going to be an issue of price and not quality. Look how many people drive Fords and Chevys and not Mercedes or Lexus…They buy what they can (or are willing to) afford.

Posted by Sabon on May 20, 2003 at 3:07 PM (CDT)


Lots of comments here that I will try to respond to. 

Overall, I think we can agree that there are feature on other mp3 devices that we would like to see on the iPod. 

I hope we can also agree that there are a number of bugs and complaints regarding basic operation and reliability of the new docking ipods.  Apple has not addressed these complaints.  They have not addressed historical complaints in a timely manner (old battery issue).

If I had a Mac, and my iPod performed advertised features without any problems, I would be happy.  Now, I have a PC, and since Apple has chosen to sell iPods for PC users, I should expect the high quality and service that Apple is known for.  I should not have to buy a Mac to fulfill the promise of a simple mp3 player.

Yes, I have an docking iPod, and yes, I’m using a PC with it. I have had problems.  The Apple store in Palo Alto has not been helpful, they would not give me an exchange, and I’m not willing to give them a 15% restocking fee for the privilege of renting a buggy product.  According to the Mac Genius, “all new products are ‘quirky’.”

Those frustrations aside (and getting back to the original topic), the iPod is constructed of many standard parts, and eventually, SOMEONE (other than Apple) will get it right.  On the PC front, which is the broader market, Apple is arguably behind Creative in terms of support (fixes, firmware upgrades, openness and responsiveness) and feature set.  Of course, in a portable device, form is just as important, if not more important, than function.  In this respect, Apple is miles ahead.

The point is, they CAN build a big lead here, but they must do so by attracting and pleasing PC users as well as Mac users.

Posted by Albert in asdfasdf on May 21, 2003 at 1:32 PM (CDT)


Hi Albert!
If you bought your IPOD with an American express that offers a 60 day satisfaction guarantee on everything you buy with the card, you can just dispute the charge and they will take care of the problems. In fact you can go to the store, tell them of the problems and warn them of the dispute if they dont take the bad product back. Otherwise, go ahead and deal with them through your credit card

Posted by Vlad on May 24, 2003 at 10:08 PM (CDT)


Actually, the AMEX return program is 90 days. But it’s only good for up to $300.

Posted by Joey J in Chesterfield MO USA on May 25, 2003 at 8:45 AM (CDT)


Albert, you are full of crap. I know of several people that never had a problem exchanging something at the Apple Store. Apple can only do so much to get the iPod to work right on the PC, and the PC isn’t exactly the most stable platform to do the things that Apple is doing. My XP is always doing thigns it ought not be doing, so I know that there is only so much they can do. Stop yoru whining.

Posted by Charles on May 25, 2003 at 4:40 PM (CDT)


Well my 30gig monster came this weekend and I have spent the last day and night prepping my music. I decided it was time for a spring clean of my collection and a re-tagging of songs hence it taking so long but have to say how dam quick the firwire is. To think I put up with USB on my PJB 100 :) One prob I did have is that unless you tell XP that you want to remove the IPOD you can lock the device in such a state it needs a reset and re-format.

I am now an official convert to Apple IPOD’s and have become an ISPOD ( Someone that won’t stop going on about their IPOD).

Posted by Robert Perkins in UK on May 25, 2003 at 4:52 PM (CDT)


I have had so many problems with my new 30GB iPod in XP that I decided I can’t wait for iTunes for Windows. I’m going to buy a G4 eMac just so I can manage my iPod better.

It’s not XP’s fault, in my opinion. Other companies have few problems making FireWire peripherals for the Windows platform that work on all machines. Apple is just spoiled by previously only having to deal with its own hardware.

It’s much easier to be innovative and stable when you CREATE the standard and no one else can use it.

Windows is just an MS-DOS program and has to run on thousands of different computers configurations from different companies. It’s amazing it works at all.

Posted by Joey J in Chesterfield MO USA on May 26, 2003 at 7:57 AM (CDT)


Joey J,

Thanks for your intelligent discourse. 

You’re right.  I’ve never had problems with my iPod, and I was able to get an exchange with no problems at the Apple store.  I just like to make up these problems and create outlandish stories for people to respond to.  I have nothing better to do than to waste my time troubleshooting an iPod with no problems, sitting at the Apple store to waste the Genius’ time, and discuss it in this forum.  Oh yeah, all of those people in the Apple forum and the iPodlounge forum are just full of crap too. 

Oh, so there’s only so much Apple can do with XP, huh?  I guess every other peripheral on the PC must be just as problematic.  Maybe my digital camera won’t work.  Maybe my camcorder will lock up.  Maybe this keyboard will suddenly fail and cause me to have to realsjdf;lsajdlfsadjflsadjflsadfldsjfldsflasdjf;lsadf;lsahfdsahfssadkfhjkfkjfkfkkfkhxjygsgd

Posted by Albert in aalsdj on May 26, 2003 at 4:04 PM (CDT)


Albert, it was me saying that your making up the Apple Store thing. You probably have nothing better to do with your time, or maybe your one of the tempermental affeminate wusses that go nuts, and fly off the handle when every little thing goes their way, so to get the company back for your little temper tantrum, you make up all kinds of garbage about the problem to get attention, and some level of sympathy. As for XP, XP is very very tempermental. I have done multi-GB file transfers to other computers from XP, only to have it crash right in the middle of the transfer. I have had XP lock up, and when it started back up, it didn’t recognize the keyboard, and only the mouse, so I had to restart the keyboard, then uninstall the computer, restart the computer once again with the keyboard connected, in hopes that it will recognize it. I also know SEVERAL people that have had problems with XP REFUSING to delete files on a USB Harddrive, because something was corrupt in one of the files. We ended up having to connect the drive to a Mac to get it to format into FAT, then hooked it back up to the PC. Should I continue little Alberto? How about Microsoft’s claim that XP and 2000’s stability issues are all related to driver support? Wow, this is interesting considering Linux and BSD are running all the same Video Cards, and Sound Cards and ETC with a lot of the drivers written by people in the open source community, not even the manufactorer, and some how Linux is still very stable especially in comparison to the pile of garbage that is XP. What about the 30,000 KNOWN bugs that were in 2000 when it shipped? I will continue this in my next comment

Posted by Charles on May 26, 2003 at 4:28 PM (CDT)


I guess you just have all the answers don’t you? You must be the magic 8 Ball of the internet. Tell me, if I turn you upside down and shake you, will you tell me when XP or any other Windows OS will have a fix for the dreaded Buffer Overflow problem that they have been fixing over and over again for years now? Or maybe I have actually used XP, and OS X, as well as having beta tested XP not from the stupid public release, but as a beta tester, and did the same with 2000. I doubt there is much you can educate me on, but telling me that XP handles everything perfectly is a joke. Telling me you had all this crap happen to you at the Apple Store is a lie. I could only see that happening if there was any sign of abuse, which wouldn’t surprise me either from someone so tempermental. But thanks for your time, and I applaud your ability to be able to tell who said what on this website, your logic skills are astounding. In behalf of ever Mac User, and I, let me congratulate you in proving once again, that Mac Users are brighter.

Posted by Charles on May 26, 2003 at 4:28 PM (CDT)


Albert can’t even figure out that the byline in this forum comes AFTER the message, not before it.

Posted by Joey J in Chesterfield MO USA on May 27, 2003 at 9:20 AM (CDT)


Joey J,

Sorry about that.  My message was intended for ‘Charles’.

Posted by Albert in asldfjl on May 27, 2003 at 10:00 AM (CDT)


My point is still true nonetheless.

Posted by Charles on May 27, 2003 at 10:11 AM (CDT)


But I must say, in Albert’s defense. How do you expect Albert to be able to tell who says what? I mean, how can he tell what’s what when his head is firmly lodged up his butt?

Posted by Charles on May 27, 2003 at 10:32 PM (CDT)



Bust out the Weenies and the marshmallows. It may be a lil late for Memorial Day but we finally got some nice flames goin here. I’ll have my steak med rare please.

Posted by Newby on May 30, 2003 at 10:00 AM (CDT)


*cooks Newby’s steak medium rare* Want some A1 with that?

Alberto, incase you have a hard time figuring out who this is, this is Charles, you know the name BELOW the comment!

Newby, want a baked potato with that?

Posted by Charles on May 30, 2003 at 10:14 AM (CDT)


The main bulk of this argument centres around the iPod’s compactness.

Yes, iPods are smaller than many other disk-based MP3 players, but they achieve this compactness by sacrificing features and expandability. They cost around 50% more than equivalently featured MP3 hard drive players. They have no digital line-in recording, no mic facility, no FM radio reception or broadcast, no wireless interface, no memory card interface, and no easy way for users to replace or upgrade the device’s batteries or hard drive.

Unlike most of the new generation media players they also feature no MPEG 4 video playback or recording. They have a weird, all-or-nothing metadata approach to storing music that forces you to use the moderately featured iTunes freeware to utilise the iPod to its fullest instead of being able to use some other full-featured, non-freeware media jukebox software.

Their battery life is shorter than (AFAIK) all other disk-based HD MP3 players. I gather from the chatter that the new-gen iPods are getting between 5-8 hours of real-world playtime, and this is with new, fully conditioned batteries.

On the plus side, they do look cute, and fit in most pockets easily. Well done to Apple for figuring that a large proportion of potential MP3 player buyers are not interested in advanced features, and will pay a significant premium for compactness and a simple, constrained interface.

In the 90s, AOL similarly spotted that they could capture a large proportion of online users by offering a simple, integrated system. I think iPods are “training wheel” MP3 players for many people. It remains to be seen whether Apple can manage their new users’ experience growth and release more compelling iPods using latest technologies so that these maturing users graduate to more fully-featured iPods and do not desert to other manufacturers’ offerings.

Posted by iPodReducedFeatureset on May 30, 2003 at 6:10 PM (CDT)


Nice.  This Albert guy posts about problems he’s having with his ipod and one guy helps tries to help him out while the rest of you just flame him.  Frankly it’s pathetic.  The issue here isn’t about Macs and PCs, or at least it shouldn’t be.  Apple have released a product for the PC.  Thousands of other companies seem to manage this without difficulty.  Clearly Apple’s inexperience with producing hardware for the PC is showing, not unsurprising really given their single hardware platform background.  I’m a PC user (I’m sure a few of you will be unable to resist the temptation to cast aspersions about my intelligence, manhood and sexual preference based upon this…flame away) and am considering buying an ipod because I think Apple lead the field in design, form and function for mp3 players.  The trouble is, I read about all these issues that the ipod is supposed to have with windows.  Any time a PC user brings these up, he’s shouted down and told his PC is at fault, buy a Mac.  Apple should not release a product in the PC space if it isn’t going to function as intended.  PC users should not have to buy a Mac to get their Apple product working.  I’d like to see a list of issues that the ipod exhibits when working in conjunction with a PC.  Perhaps then the PC and Mac communities could work together and provide information on workarounds and suchlike rather than indulging in pre-pubescent schoolyard “my computer is better than your computer” trash talk.  I got tired of that banter twenty-five years ago when the computers in question were the ZX Spectrum and the Commodore 64.  Do things never change?  *sigh*

Posted by Anon on June 2, 2003 at 3:25 AM (CDT)


Oh the good old days of ZX or Commordore 64. I had a ZX but was jealous about the fact the com 64 could play music as the game loaded. Later the debates changed to pc or Amiga and now it is pc or Mac. I have an XP machine at work and home because it is the most commonly used system. The IPOD seems to work great with XP as long as you do unmount the drive before disconnecting. It is not so much that Apple have made a product not fit for use on a pc but more the software is not really up to the job. MusicMatch is not that good.

Posted by Robert Perkins on June 2, 2003 at 3:46 AM (CDT)


Anon, you’re completely missing the point though. Albert was saying so much crap that can’t possibly be true. Yes, there was a bug with a few of the iPod’s that shippsed. A friend of mine bought one that had it. He was able to go in and trade out his iPod for a new one no questions asked. He didn’t have to pay 15% restocking fee or anything. So now, Albert is trying to tell me that he went in, and they refused to do the same. Another thing is, I know that Windows XP has problems handling certain devices. Like I’ve said before, I’ve had problems with keyboards, ethernet cards, USB drives, and scanners. Heck, my friend just bought a new Dell, and I went over and installed his scanner. The next day I get a call, and the guy is asking me why he can’t access it. I go over, and check his device manager, and the scanner was gone. I installed it again, and did a little test. I restarted the computer, and realized that Windows XP was not recognizing the scanner after a restart. I could unplug it, and plug it back in, and it still would just ask me to install the drivers all over again. I tried installing the one’s on the CD and it kept happening. I even let Windows search the internet for the right drivers, and those kept disappearing as well. You can say what you want, but when I’m seeing problems like this on whats supposed to be Microsoft’s “most reliable” OS ever built, I can’t help but feel disappointed. If the iPod doesn’t work as well on the PC, then why on earth is anyone surprised. Am I flaming? Depends on your definition of flaming. If I was saying stuff without just, or truth to what I am saying, then yes I was flaming. If I have truth to what I am saying, then I don’t think I am. I think you and Albert are both full of crap. All jokes about your intelligence, sexual preference and etc aside; I don’t see why your expierencing the iPod to work right, when Microsoft can’t nail getting their OS to remember the damn drivers to a scanner. Or has problems getting sustaining a connect with my cable modem when my iBook, and dLink base station have no problem doing the same? It’s sad. Anon, your sad.

Posted by Charles on June 2, 2003 at 9:56 AM (CDT)


C’mon, Someone say something about how much better the OLD ipod is than the newer ones! I got a 10gig mac version of the older ones, and a few months later they come out with a smaller version, thats $100 cheaper, works with both (and i previously couldnt decide between getting a mac or a windows ipod) and has more games and extras. I desperately need someone to tell me that i got the better one.

Posted by jeremy on June 2, 2003 at 10:03 AM (CDT)


First things first.  If you’re going to call me sad, at least get it gramatically correct.  “Anon, you’re sad” would be the correct way of doing this, rather than inferring that I own sad in some way.  I find it difficult to be offended by someone who obviously has such a tentative grip on the English language.  Now I’ve got that out of my system, on to the meat of the discussion…

It does not necessarily mean that XP is at fault just because your friend’s installation of XP won’t work properly, especially when his best source of technical support is a self-confessed Mac lover.  Windows XP, much as it pains me to say this, is actually a decent operating system.  It’s not on a par with something like Unix for stability but it’s not far off.  A properly configured system using decent peripherals produced by reliable manufacturers will have absolutely no problems at all.  Problems arise when you have ill specified systems running cheap hardware with poorly written non-WHQL certified driver sets.  Apple has never had to contend with the difficulties inherent in producing hardware for such a varied hardware base and therein lies the problem.

On a completely different tack, what’s the make/model of your friend’s scanner?  What system does he run, AMD or Intel?

Posted by Anon on June 2, 2003 at 10:29 AM (CDT)


ok, quit using this as a bitch at eachother forum. go fight elsewhere. answer my question (two posts up).

Posted by jeremy on June 2, 2003 at 11:36 AM (CDT)


I am a Mac Lover, but I am also able to trouble shoot PC’s, since I own 3 of them, beta tested several Windows operating systems for Microsoft, and am a registered with MIcrosofts MSDN to receive information on testing, and new develpment tools. I use a PC on a daily basis at home, and at school. Just because I like using my iBook more then any of my PC’s doesn’t mean that I hate all PC’s all together. The PC was a Dell running a 1.7 GHz Pentium IV. The scanner was part of an all in one unit made by Epson, where the printer always worked perfectly fine, but XP recognized the device as two devices. I don’t remember the model number. As far as XP is concerned, XP is a flop compared to Windows 2000. Windows 2000 had a lot better stability then Windows XP. I never had all these problems in Windows 2000, infact, all the problems I listed with devices in XP, never existed when I was running 2000. Windows XP was a step back for MIcrosoft, all in favor of backwards compatibality. Was it worth the trade off? No. In regards to your claim about my “tentative grip on the English language…” let me point something out. The whole “you’re/your” incident is my only real problem in the whole post. If you want to split hairs over something as trivial as that, and try to twist it to make it appear as if I don’t know what I am talking about over a simple mistake, then thats fine.

Posted by Charles on June 2, 2003 at 11:54 AM (CDT)


this is some bull shit forum, quit bitching at eachother, ipod is better on a mac because it was built for a mac by mac. everything built by microsoft is better when used with windows, now shut the fuck up about windows vs pc. this shit sposed to be about ipod. dumbshits

Posted by jeremy on June 2, 2003 at 3:30 PM (CDT)


I miss my creative jukebox for functionality, and connectivity to a PC.  Charge and sync work if you have a powered firewire line.  I had to get a powered 1394 CardBus from SIIG use my iPod with my lap top, but once that was done things went well.  Before it I kept killing the batteries while syncing with my database.  Apple needs a windows based iTunes.  I can understand why they prematurely released a windows connected iPod, but hopefully they try to keep the market by quickly releasing acceptable software.  Music Match sucks compared to the Creative software.

The iPod sure is pretty.

Arguing about platforms is weak.

Posted by hildy on June 4, 2003 at 6:25 PM (CDT)


“Music Match sucks compared to the Creative software.”

It sure does, Hildy try JRiver’s Media Jukebox, has direct iPod plugin support.

Posted by dfsdfsdsdffdfsda on June 5, 2003 at 3:05 PM (CDT)


Charles you really are a loser .. try socialising, having firends, having a drink of whisky every now and then, be a risk taker istead of sitting at home getting worked up over poor Albert who IS correct in saying that the Apple store has a restocking fee of 15% .. (read around the other forums - If your friend had no problems then good for him).

This place is meant to help people with problems. If you’re extremely good with PC and MAC problems then why don’t you try helping others instead of sucking your own genitalia. (ooohh .. i’ve worked with this, this, and that!) ..Bothered..!

I doubt Albert will ever use this forum again for help after the cold hearted abuse you gave him.

I love Macs but own a PC, to be honest, i was thinking of switching but if all mac users are as ignorant as you then I don’t want want to be a part of it.. luckily there’s only a couple of losers so i probably will switch. Charles, you don’t deserve this much attention but i’m feeling generous..

Apologies for draging this post to a lower abusive level and i know 2 wrongs don’t make a right, but I couldn’t resist sticking up for Albert.

Anon gets the idea! He knows what I’m saying!

Charles .. start helping people with problems, stop abusing them.

Posted by Cycloptic Pimpernel in Sunny Stoke / Huddersfield on June 8, 2003 at 11:39 AM (CDT)


Cycloptic Pimpernel, I am not a loser. I have plenty of friends, and I do socialize. I just don’t believe a single word Albert says. Why? Because I know of plenty of people who have been able to EXCHANGE their ipod’s for a new one with NO problem at all. I have a PC too, that I use for coding in VB, probably one of the simplest languages to code in. I am not anti-PC, I just hate it when people are full of crap, and they talk about it here on the boards. XP has TONS of problems with devices. I have expierenced many of them, and so have my friends. You can call me ignorant as much as you want, but you are just showing your ignorance with that very statement. What I think is HILARIOUS, is the fact that a guy like Cycloptic Pimpernel is calling me a loser. What kind of STUPID, and IDIOTIC name is that? I am done with this topic. If you have anything intelligent to say, e-mail me. Oh, and by the way, about all Mac users being as ignorant as me. It is a well known fact that Mac users are more intelligent then PC users. I can go into more details about how I am not ignorant, but I would rather not rub it in your all ready.

Now, I am sorry if what I said came off as rude before. Fact of the matter is, I don’t believe a single thing Albert has said. I have listed my reasons why. He tried to give a rebuttle, which I have proved wrong on my own. If you want to argue with me, that is a personal problem. As far as I am concerned, the flaming started the moment Albert started making his post, full of ignorance. I simply gave a rebuttle.

Do you want to know more about what qualifies me to say stuff about the quality of Microsoft products? I have beta tested Windows 2000 Professional, and Server, Office 97, Office 2000, Internet Explorer, and a few development suites that are now out. I have also tested some copies of Jaguar before it went GM. Not to mention that while I’m in school, I’m a freelance technician for both Macs and PCs. So, if you have any other comments be sure to let me know. As far as I am concerned, Albert is a disgruntled customer, and I saw them all the time having worked for an Apple Specialist. They can be easily identified, by complaining about one thing, then making up other stuff just to try to manipulate the retailer into doing what they want. I have seen it many times.

Posted by Charles on June 8, 2003 at 12:26 PM (CDT)


Charles, Bothered .. loser

Posted by James on June 8, 2003 at 12:50 PM (CDT)


As an XP user the ipod is the coolest thing to come down the pipe. But for god sakes the Music Match interface SUCKS!!Please Mr. Jobs, hurry and release itunes for windows….....

Posted by Wayne on June 8, 2003 at 4:42 PM (CDT)


Wow James, how quaint of you. You’re long detailed point-for-point analysis of my posts, with your rebuttle was riveting, and had me on the edge of my seat. I have finally met someone worthy of a verbal sparing match with. I congratulate you, for being able to do what others have not been able to do, and doing it with only THREE words. “Charles, Bothered .. loser”. *starts clapping* Touche James. Obviously a PC user like your self can see the pure brilliance, that is so perfectly encapsulated it the three words that you posted. I am still trying to get my mind around how you could so cleverly put such works together, and make it seem as if it were nothing. James my friend, you are one of the great minds of the ages, who should be put up on a pedastol with the likes of Socrates and the like.

Bravo James.

I mean it.

Posted by Charles on June 9, 2003 at 12:20 AM (CDT)


Sorry to interrupt the argument, but I just got an iPod, and it is awesome. I got the 10GB one, since I don’t listen to too much music. Once I got it working, it worked great. The only problem is that my computer doesn’t have a Firewire port. One question: does the dock connector with the USB cable only connect to the dock? Or does it connect to the iPod too?

. . . Thanks.

Posted by Jimothy on June 17, 2003 at 7:52 AM (CDT)


Sorry to interrupt the argument, but I just got an iPod, and it is awesome. I got the 10GB one, since I don’t listen to too much music. Once I got it working, it worked great. The only problem is that my computer doesn’t have a Firewire port. One question: does the dock connector with the USB cable only connect to the dock? Or does it connect to the iPod too?

. . . Thanks.

Posted by Jimothy on June 17, 2003 at 7:52 AM (CDT)



I have been a proud mac user since I was 3 years old, but I can’t stand idiotic mac Zealots who do nothing but bitch about how PC’s suck and Macs are God’s computer.  NEWS FLASH, you need a life!!  I mean, come on, we’ve got Charles over here making statements like “It is a well known fact that Mac users are more intelligent then PC users.”  People make their own choice about what operating system or computer to get, and no choice is the wrong one.  Macs are not CLEARLY better than PCs and PCs are not CLEARLY better than macs, so how can you even waste your time engaging in a debate? 

I like Macs, but I have to go with the facts:

Posted by drew on June 19, 2003 at 6:12 PM (CDT)


Don’t really care what you have to say, ignorance speaks volumes. I am by no means a “idiotic mac Zealot..” as you say. I use both platforms on a daily basis. Don’t care whats faster then what, and there haven’t really been any benchmarks that compare the two so I know your full of crap. Doesn’t really matter to me if Microsoft Word in XP does spell check faster then it does on a Mac. Everyone I know that has ever used a mac for more then 30 min loves it, looking back, never really seen anything to the contrary. Call me what you want, I have the expierence that shows I know what I’m talking about. I never said that the Mac is God’s computer, I just said that little Roberto is full of crap. Once you have pulled your head out of your butt long enough to truly realize what it was that I said, and realized from where I am coming from, I will listen to what you have to say. PC’s are fine if all you do is browse the web, there really isn’t much difference if thats all you do, once you do anything that goes beyond clicking a link, you realize how much better a mac is. The best OS that Microsoft has ever made was Windows 2000, and they completely screwed up that with Windows XP. Windows XP is unstable for my use, and is dramatically slower then 2000. Please, show me these so called “BENCHMARKS”, because I would love to see if you can manifest your delusions into something that can actually be seen by other people.

If you think I’m one of those Mac Zealots that kisses Steve Job’s Butt, then you are wrong, I have hated a few of the products. I hated the first generation ibook, and i don’t really care for the current iPod. The no moving parts thing takes away from how intuitive the original interface and lay out really was…


Posted by Charles on June 19, 2003 at 6:57 PM (CDT)


...The speed thing is not a big deal, because most people don’t take advantage of most of the speed they all ready have. You can *itch all you want about how the new “Hyperthreading” of the new Intel chip has blown away everything Apple has, but the reality is, anyone who has studied the way chips work, should know that it isn’t that big of a deal, considering that it is just the next logical step from the Superscalar archcheture that was shown in the original Pentium. All it REALLY does, is trick the software at the Bios Level into thinking that there are two processors when there is really only one. The only real benefit is that it goes to a simpler level of threading two tasks and putting them through the same pipeline utilizing the gaps that exist when the primary thread is being executed. The thing is, the second thread is not being execute at nearly the speed it would if it was REALLY being executed in another processor. The results I’ve seen don’t show more then a 10-15% speed increase. That is nice, but it isn’t earth shattering. At the same time, I’m not going to try to defend Motorola, who has been focusing on other areas besides CPU’s, because that haven’t been doing that great profit wise…

Posted by Charles on June 19, 2003 at 6:58 PM (CDT)


...The thing is, we can argue about this as much as you want. The truth of the matter is, I’m not arguing that the Mac is better simply because it’s a Mac. I’m saying the guy is full of crap, because everything he has said can be shown to be a lie. When I said that it could very well be a problem with Windows, it wasn’t me dissing Windows for being Windows. It was me stating FACT that I have expierenced on several systems regarding to how it has had problems things such as removeable drives, or a keyboard for that matter. But of course, we can claim that certain things happen under “fantasy” benchmarks as much as you want. i am not saying fantasy because I am against PC’s, but because there aren’t any good benchmarks that work cross platform, so please educate me, all knowing “drew”. It would be great if you enlighten me, because obviously, I don’t believe you. Why? because your entire post hits things that no one else had even brought up, leading me to believe, that you just wanted to come off as a big man.

Do I have a life? Hell ya, I have my own business, and usually chilling with my friends, but that doesn’t mean I can’t actually know anything. “Wow, he has actually used both platforms, he can’t possibly ever see the light of day, or have any friends for that matter!” Brilliant observatioin “drew” but like in the rest of your post, ignorance shines through once again. I am not more a Windows Basher, then you are intelligent.

Posted by Charles on June 19, 2003 at 6:59 PM (CDT)



I got to this forum since I usually read forums before deciding on a product. iPod is not different, so I got a pointer from www.tomshardware.com saying that this place has been most useful for getting advice, etc.

This forum is special allright! Believe it or not, I haven’s seen such a burst of rudeness in any forum for a long time - actually I’ve NEVER seen, period.

One thing is sure, with so much “help” and “mutual support”, I will look elsewhere.

One last word though. Didn’t you people hear about the simple technique of ignoring flames instead of arguing? With no response, flames fade away and together with them, their posters.

Best of luck, and happy iPodding.

Posted by Virtual on June 23, 2003 at 9:46 AM (CDT)


Whilst I agree with most of your comments. One major fact needs correcting. I read time and time again that MP3 or AAC provide CD quality audio. THEY DO NOT. The sound from any of these devices uses compression and the compression used also involves massive loss of data.

You only need to compare the bit rates. CD has a bit rate of 1,411 Kbs. MP3 and AAC are around one tenth. Are you trying to say that nothing is lost?

Don’t get me wrong. I love the iPod and the convenience of AAC and MP3 files but using them with anything bigger than a computer loudspeaker or a pair of headphones is pointless, it just doesn’t sound that good.

Posted by Roland on June 29, 2003 at 9:02 AM (CDT)


I am a PC user and the IPOD is amazing. I have a second generation 10G ipod and I have never experienced any problems with it, so I dont know what all these problems on the new ipods are, but i think the problem is XP. On the average, i am getting 5 to 10 errors a day while i open programs or try to get on the internet. I have to send error reports to microsoft all the time. I dont have a mac, only my pc, but i think XP is not that great. I never had any problems on ‘98 0r 2000. My ipod plays great. I cant wait til itunes comes out on windows.

P.S. PC’s are not the fastest anymore. Apple’s new Powermac G5 is much faster than any pc.

P.S.S. I just had an error typing this and i sent ANOTHER error report to microsoft.

Posted by Someone on July 1, 2003 at 2:00 PM (CDT)


“using them with anything bigger than a computer loudspeaker or a pair of headphones is pointless, it just doesn’t sound that good.”

I output high-bitrate VBR MP3s using the Digital Line Out from my Archos to my Onkyo system and they sound fantastic. Seriously.

Is it true that the iPod only provides analogue output? That could be why your music loses fidelity on larger systems. Try a high-bitrate lossy VBR file using digital outputs sometime and you may change your mind about psycho-acoustical compression!

Posted by dfsdfsdsdffdfsda on July 7, 2003 at 5:23 PM (CDT)


Someone, thank you for being honest. I am glad to see that I am not the only one who thinks its an XP problem. While many think that XP nailed device management, they are wrong, XP is probably the worst at it.

Posted by Charles on July 8, 2003 at 4:14 PM (CDT)


Hehehehehehe! The best thread I’ve seen in ages - Informative, funny and Charles you Rock!

Posted by Paul on July 10, 2003 at 9:06 AM (CDT)


Thank you

Posted by Charles on July 10, 2003 at 11:52 AM (CDT)


xp isn’t the worst system for running iPod, xp is simply the worst system…

Posted by pierre on July 11, 2003 at 2:21 AM (CDT)


iPod is the best music player in the world…and unfortunately too expensive for me and many many people…

Posted by pierre on July 11, 2003 at 2:24 AM (CDT)


Its not my hifi I’m talking about. I’m a professional sound engineer. I’m just telling you that lossy compressed audio cannot be as good as PCM based audio such as CD. A digital output will help a little but an MP3 file has less audio information than a CD, something must be missing. Its garbage in, garbage out.
For professionals CD isn’t good enough we use 24 bit audio sampled at 48Khz or 96Khz. Anyone trying to use audio seriously wouldn’t even consider going near MP3. I still listen to MP3s but just for convenience not for quality.

Posted by Roland Hemming on July 11, 2003 at 10:52 AM (CDT)


Well, just give economics some time to take care of that. Prices will slowly trickle down.

Posted by Charles on July 11, 2003 at 10:53 AM (CDT)


Well, I’m a club DJ who works from regular media and my Powebook, and MP3s encoded at 192 sound just fine over various club soundsystems.

Posted by Tir-Na-Nog or Bust! on July 11, 2003 at 11:48 AM (CDT)


Roland, I dig what you’re saying, but if CD-audio doesn’t meet your needs professionally then a digital version of that audio won’t either. But were not talking about professional-quality audio here are we?

Posted by Tir-Na-Nog or Bust! on July 11, 2003 at 11:51 AM (CDT)


AAC at 128 is fine for me. I can’t tell the difference between that and the cd.

Posted by Charles on July 11, 2003 at 11:52 AM (CDT)


Tir-Na-Nog or Bust what you say is true.

Just don’t say that it is CD quality as Byron did at the top and as so many others reviewers do.

Posted by Roland on July 12, 2003 at 12:53 AM (CDT)


It is true, that it isn’t true “CD Quality” but the majority of people can’t tell the difference. I have a great ear, and I can bearly tell the difference. I will say this though, it is better then WMA. The Real audio format that you can use with Real Jukebox is pretty good too. But the truth of the matter is though, nothing is ever going to be as good as the original. But there is such a small margin of discernable difference between these “lossy” formats and the CD that it really doesn’t matter to at least 95% of the consumers. I would love to hear though, what a true audiophile thinks of this new Windows Media Lossless codec that MSFT has been bragging about.

Can someone who doesn’t like AAC at 128k try out Windows Lossless and tell us what you think? That would be interesting.

Posted by Charles on July 12, 2003 at 5:35 PM (CDT)


I am the proud owner of a Philips HDD100 and I can tell you that it rules.
I don’t know if I would swap it for an iPod as I’ve since played with an iPod and it looks very ‘basic’ in comparision.

Posted by Hal9000 on July 16, 2003 at 9:53 AM (CDT)


How much does this Philips HDD100 cost? I just saw one at their website, but they are not at Amazon yet (they get everything fast).

If it works as advertised, then it’s cool. However, there is no getting around the fact that the iPod stepped MP3 players up to the next level. It stands to reason that somebody would eventually catch up and challenge Apple. They always do; for example, iBook, iMac (original and new one), 17in Powerbook, Airport, Airport Extreme, G5, need I go on? All these products are at the top in their class. Some are even being challenged. Does that mean they are suddenly “yesterday’s news?” Maybe. But I doubt it. Apple is always about innovation and they will continue. I wouldn’t be surprised if they step it up to the next level again; perhaps a color screen? How about voice activation? Recording capabilities? (The Philips HDD100 has that now)...

Posted by Durandal on July 16, 2003 at 3:13 PM (CDT)


yeah there is no doubt apple inovate. I dont like macs all that much but use them everday at work.. but if i was considering getting a notebook i wouldnt even look twice at pcs.. i love my 933 ibook and my powerbook that i have at work. no pc compaires power to price (and sexy looks) to the ibook.
The HDD100 will cost about

Posted by Hal9000 on July 21, 2003 at 4:57 AM (CDT)


I think relying on the 1.8” hard drive for the iPod is an Achilles Heel. It drives up the cost, reduces the options to add standard media jukebox features such as microphones, recording and video circuitry, but most importantly it limits the iPod’s capacity!


Hard disk manufacturers are now phasing out the 3.5” hard drive format and moving to the 2.5” format. Apparently the latest SATA drives use 2.5” platters anyway—the casing is just supersized to 3.5” to fit today’s machines.
Anyway, if the market converges on 2.5” as the new form factor, then the iPod is SOL, but all the Zen/Archos/Nuovo and so on that use 2.5” form factor drives will suddenly be able to offer 100-200 GB of on-device storage. Will there be a similar trickle-down effect for the iPods?

Posted by harder faster longer on July 23, 2003 at 2:29 PM (CDT)


I disagree.

The 1.8” hard drive is what allows the iPod its greatest feature: form.  It’s smaller, lighter and sleaker than its competitors.

And that’s what Apple does.  Their stuff is generally more expensive in a price/performance/features comparison,  but it’s always sexy.  Apple will stay with the smaller drive, keeping the larger price, but have a sleak and sexy design that those using larger, cheaper hard drives just won’t be able to compete against.  Features will continue to be added and reliability will be improved, but the price won’t drop over time.  Competitors will roll out with 2.5” hard drive based products.  They’ll be larger and less expensive.  Feature sets will be similar.  Reliability will be stabilized.

In the end, Apple will have the same section of the MP3 player market that they enjoy in most other markets.  Not necessarily the largest marketshare, cheaper alternatives will win out there, but the best overall models in terms of form and features: small and sexy, high resolution screen, best backlighting…

In the present, the iPod on windows suffers from Apple’s reliance on third party software (aka MusicMatch).  Once they roll out a Windows version of iTunes (if they do), the iPod will be that much better.

I, personally, have used MusicMatch for years and find version 8.0 to have everything I’ve ever wanted in a music cataloging program.  It has worked flawlessly with my 10GB iPod after a few minor studders out of the gate.

Posted by Ybarra on July 27, 2003 at 1:36 AM (CDT)


Look, I love the look and feel of my new 15gb iPod. I love iTunes, and I love my new Mac. But, I am pretty frustrated that the iPod freezes and skips while jogging (yes, I have already returned it and received a new unit - same problems).  The active lifestyle marketing stuff is junk.  I wish I would have hit these forums in advance to appreciate that people don’t use these things when jogging.  If anyone has any advice for me/can recommend freeze & skip prevention when jogging, please reply.

Posted by Matt Dermer on July 30, 2003 at 10:36 PM (CDT)


Not necessarily the largest marketshare, cheaper alternatives will win out there, but the best overall models in terms of form and features: small and sexy, high resolution screen, best backlighting…

I don’t think you’re seeing the bigger picture. Other HD-based jukeboxes have added or are adding microphone dictation, recording, video record and playback, full-colour screens, bluetooth, and battery lives 2-3 times longer then V3 iPods. And they do this at price points ranging from around the same as an iPod to less than half the price. Against this the iPOds offer a couple of ounces and half an inch.

If you look past the retail dollars spent, then iPods accounted for just over 10% of MP3 player sales last XMas, and I’d argue that as their distinctive style is copies, and features added, then you’re going to see a repeat of the Macs long slide in retail sales percentages and usability advantage. Apple is a great starter, but seems to slowly kill its best products through benign neglect, incremental upgrades, and excessive pricing.


US Retail Unit Market Share for MP3 Players Q4 2002 %
RCA 12.95
RIO 11.27
APPLE 11.23
All Other 47.39

Posted by HAL9000 on July 31, 2003 at 12:55 PM (CDT)


If anyone has any advice for me/can recommend freeze & skip prevention when jogging

No HD-based MP3 player can really withstand prolonged, sustained bouncy motions. Not to mention that, really, these little devices don’t have RAID 1 and all that reading/writing from the disk during heavy activity is risky. And you *really* don’t want to have to try to source a replacement for an iPod’s proprietary hard drive yourself.

Keep the iPod, but also get a solid-state keychain MP3 player for heavy activity. They are a lot smaller and cheaper than an iPod as well, but they do only store a couple of album’s worth of music! I like the iRiver ones. There are some reviewed in the current Wired as “Key Chain MP3 Players

Posted by bouncy guy on July 31, 2003 at 1:02 PM (CDT)


Hal9000, your words are well noted, but lack any real substance. Yes, Apple lost market share in areas where they once dominated. But it would be ridiculous to think that Apple would repeat these mistakes. Those mistakes were made with very bad management, who are all gone now. Steve Jobs isn’t going to let this slip through his hands like you think!

Posted by Charles on July 31, 2003 at 1:28 PM (CDT)


Response to bouncy guy re: Check Out Key Chain mp3:

Thank you fo the advice.  I was checking out the mp3 players from Wired.  On iRiver’s web site it says in the FAQ area that 100 & 300 series are not Mac OSX compatible - is this correct? 

The Kanguru product, also recommended in Wired, looks like a good fit.  But, I am wondering:

1) How do I load the player with iTunes as my music program and the AAU format?  It would seem that I would need to maintain iTunes and another program for the mp3s?

2) Why do I need an iPod?  I really only want music for on the go - as in when I am jogging?

Very confused and second guessing all of my Mac decisions. Help!

Posted by Matt Dermer on July 31, 2003 at 9:10 PM (CDT)


FAQ seems old, there’s now an OSX and OS9 music manager for the iRiver


To manage such devices with iTunes you’d have to rely on Apple or third-party to provide a suitable driver.

These drives, like most of the flash RAM players, also function as basic USB thumb drives—you can mount them on your desktop as regular (though small) USB drives.

Posted by bouncy guy on August 1, 2003 at 7:06 PM (CDT)


I have one question to ask to Charles - do yuo weigh less than 20 stones?

Posted by big fat bobby taylor on August 5, 2003 at 9:28 AM (CDT)


“bouncy guy”

I understand the value of the USB based Keychain mp3 device, but iTunes does not export to them.  Thus, the only way I see getting music on the iRiver device is to burn an audio CD from iTunes, then encode the files as mp3 using a non-iTunes encoder and store them on my hard drive, then transfer them to the iRiver device via some other, non-iTunes software…

Very involved!  How and with what process/software do you accomplish this?


Posted by Matt Dermer on August 5, 2003 at 9:57 AM (CDT)


I think someone made a rather stupid about how people who buy Macs are somehow smarter or better other people. This person may be thinking of a recent study by a major newspaper (it was sort of a sidebar piece) showing that on average, Mac users are better educated and more affluent than PC users. But this has more to do with the fact that Apple products cost more. Think about it—of course higher-priced items are usually purchased by people who are more affluent, and overall, people who have more money tend to be better educated. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t well-educated, affluent people who use PCs. There’s no point in arguing against the statistics, which are pretty clear, but at the same time, there’s no need to use the statistics to make other people feel stupid. By the way, my iPod works great; I take it everywhere. I don’t think it would be “better” or “more advanced” with any more features or controls. It does the things it’s supposed to do, and it does them very, very well. As far as I’m concerned, Honda may introduce a hundred more great cars, but none of them will be an Ferrari. Know what I mean?

Posted by Boosh on August 7, 2003 at 4:12 AM (CDT)


I have been posting in this forum a specific iPod issue and ‘bouncy guy’ has been somewhat helpful.  I just read the above comment by ‘boosh’.

All in, it comes down to this: Apple brings us this phenominal product, iPod, but adopts a “superior” format (aac - still wondering how superior it actually is vs mp3); yet, this format forces us to only use an iPod.  I understand the marketing element - the squeeze.  My issue is that a hard-drive based music player, like the iPod, is not practical for active people, i.e joggers.  Joggers are a large representation of the iPod using public.  The iPod skips & freezes when it is in motion.  How freaken hard would it be for Apple to put out a ‘keychain’/‘micro’ player (like the iRiver, Rio Sport, Kanguru) that plays aac and uses flash- is not hard drive based? It doesn’t need to have iPod-like capacity - just a nice little, compact player.  It would not cannibalize the iPod; it would round off the product offering.  In fact, with refernce to ‘boosh’ above, I would own both and I would bet that most Mac people would as well.

Posted by Matt Dermer on August 7, 2003 at 7:45 AM (CDT)


I just wandered into this forum by chance, hoping to find a few reviews for the ipod, but instead a fight is going on between mac and windows geeks! what a bunch of losers! who gives a fuck, go out, get pissed, find yourselves a girlfriend and get some of the good stuff. lifes too short!

Posted by anon on August 7, 2003 at 8:02 AM (CDT)



Have you ever heard of EphPod? www.ephpod.com - it replaces stupid MMJB and it’s free.

Kind regards.

Posted by tester001 on August 8, 2003 at 5:54 AM (CDT)


Getting an iPod was the best computer-related experience this year. But Oh, my!—does it need more of a manual than the little info sheets Apple supplies!

How fortunate we are that David Pogue’s wonderful “Missing Manual” books now include a new item, and it covers the iPod thoroughly. The author and series editor are excellent. If you don’t know about this book or the series and the links to related software, go right now to www.missingmanuals.com—one of the best sites ever. Lots of info about the books and easy download options for software.

Posted by David S on August 9, 2003 at 9:56 AM (CDT)


wow, I just got my 15GB yesterday, and I LOVE it!!!  IPOD is really a great product, for PCs AND MACs…  That said, while some problems are definitely related to XP, I don’t think it’s all XP’s fault.  Apple probably just hasn’t nailed it with their software.  Give it some time, and maybe they’ll get it right…  MusicMatch actually works fine with my XP, but I’m not so lucky on the Ephpod side…  maybe I’ll have to reinstall it.  Or maybe I’ll be looking into that new Toshiba mp3 player… it might just be the opposition we’ve been expecting for IPOD since forever…

by the way, Charles, it’s “YOU’RE”, not “YOUR”...  How many times do you have to be told?  It seems, with all YOUR gramatical errors, that while there’s a possibility of you being as qualified for issues regarding MACs and PCs as you said you are (at least as much as one of what Albert said being true), YOU’RE definitely not very good with English…

Posted by lilteyang on August 10, 2003 at 4:26 AM (CDT)


My new iPod is great, but WATCH OUT for iTunes 4 if Apple Software Update asks is you want to update to version 4.0.1 when you next boot in OS X and are connected to the Net!

The update itself is slow but straightforward. However, in the process of updating, to my surprise and agony, Apple’s
updater removed all the music I had previously imported into iTunes 4. Since I own the CDs, replacing it is easy, but it takes time I’d rather do something else with.

Fortunately I did not have the iPod connected when the update occurred! Would it have messed up the iPod too?

Danal in AA

Posted by Danal S on August 10, 2003 at 9:21 AM (CDT)


Forget about ephpod and mmjb, they are toys, I found this program that integrates my iPod AND my Tivo:


I can stream files from my Tivo, and I can re-record them onto the iPod and transport them. This is NIRVANA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted by WindowsUsers... MediaCenter on August 11, 2003 at 12:17 PM (CDT)


It does crossfading!!! It has ethernet!!! It plays OGGs!!! It’s the same size as the iPod!!! It’s got 20/40 GB!!! It’s as small as the iPod and a weighs less. This is one sweet little player.



RioKarma 20:
20G 2.7 x 3.0 x 0.90 = 7.29 inch^3 5.5oz

ipod specs:
10G 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.62 = 6.10 inch^3 5.6oz
15G 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.62 = 6.10 inch^3 5.6oz
30G 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.73 = 7.18 inch^3 6.2oz

Posted by RioKarma on August 11, 2003 at 2:40 PM (CDT)


Blah-BLAH-Blah—> PCS SUCK!

Wow, what an informative website!
Thanks guys!

Posted by my_dog_barks_some on August 11, 2003 at 10:32 PM (CDT)


that’s not the same size as IPOD, is it???
I’ve heard it’s shorter, a bit wider, and thicker, as well… hmm….

Posted by lilteyang on August 12, 2003 at 9:55 PM (CDT)


“Who gives a f***, go out, get pissed, find yourselves a girlfriend and get some of the good stuff. lifes too short!”

Hmm, that *does* sound better than this.
Off to get some of the good stuff.
Where to begin….

Posted by Rumpelstiltskin on August 16, 2003 at 5:40 PM (CDT)


has mr.jobs even promised the itunes for windows will have iPod support?

Posted by ti on August 20, 2003 at 5:18 AM (CDT)


Charles: quot capita tot sententiae ...

Posted by J on August 22, 2003 at 1:09 AM (CDT)


Do any of you know what girls are .... while you bicker over little white microchip filled gadgets you could be balls deep in a chick!

get your lives into persective !

Posted by the Lion on August 26, 2003 at 7:47 AM (CDT)


Hey i was just wondering how do you record the 6 seconds of sound with the ipod and when will they release a firware update?

Posted by James Keaney on September 2, 2003 at 3:01 AM (CDT)


Hey i was just wondering how do you record the 6 seconds of sound with the ipod and when will they release a firware update?

Posted by James on September 2, 2003 at 3:02 AM (CDT)


Is it my imagination, or does the battery in the midsize iPod
need to be recharged frequently, even if it isn’t played for a day or so?


Posted by Dee Shap on September 2, 2003 at 6:30 AM (CDT)


hi Dee
I have the same problem with my new 15gig ipod the battery lasts nowhere near the 8 hours apple promise.
anyone any ideas how to recify this?

Posted by ralph on September 2, 2003 at 11:24 AM (CDT)


I came to this site for some info on an ipod but like a few posts up its been nothing but a debate, pc vs. mac.

I cannot stand these debates because nothing is ever aheived and will ever be acheived. I have been a proud owner of a PC all my life after learning how to use a computer on a mac. I currently have 3 PC’s running in my room and have no problems with them and I think people should use whatever they feel the most comfotable with it. If you like a mac better, use one, if you like a pc, use a pc, it shouldnt matter to anyone else. These days so much is cross platform and this is coming from someone who is in the graphic business. I work everyday moving between macs and pcs with co-workers and clients and I do not have any problems.

Now hopefully I can find some usefull ipod information on this site :D

Posted by Tom on September 2, 2003 at 3:03 PM (CDT)


Come on, Apple was just marketed out of the buisness from the start by Bill Gates, a marketing genius.  Apples are far superior when dealing with reliablity, security, functionality, and looks. Who cares though, I mean if you like your PC, that’s cool, keep using it, but next time you buy a computer read some about the G5…
I have an old 20GB model that has lasted a year of constant abuse, I’ve never reset it, never had any problem whatsoever.  I also have a friend with a 15GB version who had the battery problem, remember, as with every Lithium device, you must charge it fully before you start taking it from it’s power source.  That means a full 2hrs of charging!!!!!
I have to give Apple mad props for releasing the magnificent iPod, but remember that isn’t Apple’s only product, look into some of their software/hardware, almost all of it is great stuff.

Posted by Ben on September 4, 2003 at 1:50 PM (CDT)


I’m considering to buy an iPod but I have one short question:  can the new iPod play mixed CD tracks gaplessly? Thanks.

Posted by Xavier on September 6, 2003 at 5:51 AM (CDT)



Posted by Ben on September 7, 2003 at 8:48 AM (CDT)


Ended up getting a Creative Nomad Zen and very happy with it. The Ipod 10 gb was 459 canadian, and the nomad was 474 canadian and it had 20 gb, lots of features, not as compact as the ipod but then I dont think there are any that are smaller but its not too much bigger and it comes with a protective case and belt strap. I would recommend this.

Posted by Tom on September 7, 2003 at 9:50 AM (CDT)

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