iLounge

21

To all the supposed math geniuses here.

You are missing the point. Jobs is talking about AVERAGES. The point of averages is that it says nothing about an individual iPod. An average doesn’t even say a typical iPod has 22 songs purchased from the iTunes Store. An average is simply that - an average.

So if you are talking about 100 million iPods sold and 2.2 billions songs, no matter how you cut it, that comes out to an AVERAGE of 22 purchased songs per iPod SOLD. You nitpickers are talking about trying to realistically model how many purchased songs are on a typical iPod among the iPods still in use, which is not what Jobs was talking about.

Case in point. The average married couple in the U.S. has 2.4 kids. Does that mean there are no childless married couples or couples with 8 kids? Does that mean you could expect to find half a kind in a typical American family?

Of course not. It’s non-sensical. But it’s perfectly correct to say the average American family consists of 2.4 kids.

Go back and study up on the definition of an average before spouting off about how Jobs is lying again. Some people really just can’t seem to see the forest for the trees...sheesh!

Posted by kiwali on February 6, 2007 at 7:05 PM (PDT)

22

Kiwali, I understand perfectly well what the definition of an average is, and completely understand that if we divide 2.2 billion songs over 100 million iPods, we get an average of 22 songs per iPod sold. I am not saying that my iPod/iTunes Store usage is typical, or represents the average. What I was arguing is that that figure (22 songs per iPod sold) has no real-world significance, and Jobs tries to give it some by suggesting that the “average iPod” has 22 songs from the iTunes music store. If we could take a perfect sample of every iPod in the world, (not that we can), we would find that the true average would be much higher, due to the fact that a large number of iPods purchased since 2001 have now gone to iPod heaven, reducing the number of active iPods out there, and that there are many iTunes Store purchased songs which are stored on more than one iPod.

I used myself (one, isolated, non-representative-of-the-entire-ipod-world case) to illustrate that I am, by Steve Jobs’ definition, “average”, in that my songs purchased divided by iPods purchased gives me 3% of purchased songs per iPod. When I take those real world factors into consideration, we find that my iPods actually contain 11% purchased music.

Yes, Jobs’ figure is an average, but its failure to include critical factors which would push that average up considerably makes it a useless one.

Posted by Nuke666 in Melbourne, Austalia on February 6, 2007 at 8:01 PM (PDT)

23

as Mr Jobs says, the onus is on the major labels, not Apple. On a positive note, EMI has quietly dropped the infernal copy protection on their CDs in Australia and New Zealand. The majors must finally wake up and realise this technology doesn’t nothing other than make legitimate consumers feel like criminals.

Posted by Lawrence Mikkelsen in New Zealand on February 6, 2007 at 8:40 PM (PDT)

24

>What if they made DRM free files
>that had the the users real name,
>ip address burned somehow into the
>file so the officials could trace
>the uploader and discourage them
>from sharing?

Firstly, that would be a form of DRM. Secondly, it won’t prove who uploaded the file, so it would be useless.

Posted by CCCC on February 6, 2007 at 10:36 PM (PDT)

25

Hah! This is all part of Steve’s master plan from the start;
Sell his idea of online Sales with DRM to the Music Companies,
Sell his concept of online Sales with DRM to the TV Studios,
Sell his system of online Sales with DRM to the Movie Makers,
Cop abuse for Pervasive use of DRM in music,
Blame the Music Companies,
Cop abuse for Pervasive use of DRM in TV Shows,
Blame the Studios,
Cop abuse for Pervasive use of DRM in Movies,
Liberate all media!

Hooray!

Posted by Dan Woods on February 7, 2007 at 12:33 AM (PDT)

26

Since Steve Jobs is the one who mainly dragged the labels into selling their music online, you think he’d be able to make them give up DRM

Posted by justin on February 7, 2007 at 9:40 AM (PDT)

27

translation:

Jobs: “i’m sorry, an older boy told me to do it”

what a crock.  Apple has been gaining money and marketshare from this from day one.

and now they just want a way to turn all the negative feeling they’ve got over DRM, failing iPod batteries / slack warranties / service etc. as Jobs is soo insecure about how people view his company…

Posted by G on February 7, 2007 at 9:51 AM (PDT)

28

And there are examples which counter yours, Nuke666.  Such as myself - ~7000 song library, fewer than 10 songs from iTunes.  Plus, the ratio of non-iTunes songs to iTunes songs on my iPod is greater than the 700:1 of my music library (more like 1100:1).

In the end, the law of averages holds, and your example is statistically meaningless.  However, the question is whether or not Jobs has any real hard data to back his 3% figure.  Which reminds me:  Scott, do you have data to back your ~15% claim, or did you just make that number up?

Posted by Esquilax on February 7, 2007 at 10:40 AM (PDT)

29

All this fuss about numbers that are meaningless!

Why use 1000 songs per iPod just because it’s the most popular size? Why not use average capacity sold? Why assume 1000 song capacity? - that’s using the average file size from the source of the fewest number of songs (iTunes)?  Why assume that every song purchased goes on a player at all? (I’ll grant that most will, but where are the stats - these songs could all live on and be played from just a computer...)

So in the end Steve’s argument is oversimplified and logically faulty - just as Scott’s is anecdotal, but doesn’t claim to be otherwise.

Oh - and applying DRM universally is just laziness - it’s all applied dynamically by the iTunes client software at the time of download so that it can be keyed to the purchaser anyway - songs could quite easily be flagged as to whether or not DRM is even needed.

BTW - yes, I have and enjoy 2 iPods and my personal ratio would be less than 1% from iTunes

Posted by WhoCares on February 7, 2007 at 11:41 AM (PDT)

30

It’s a step forward, but I still won’t purchase anything from the iTunes store until they start selling tracks for .50 or less. BitTorrent and SoulSeek offer very reasonable prices.

Posted by Casper on February 12, 2007 at 1:21 AM (PDT)