iLounge

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The buttons on the vision:m are as hard to press as the touchpad on the zen touch was sensitive. The software is laggy, and the UI takes a while to navigate between tracks. I’ve had a chance to live with both the vision:m and the ipod video together for two weeks. I’m from Singapore, so if anything I should be loyal to my own local company, but after testing and reviewing both, I’d still pick the ipod.

Posted by dartht on January 9, 2006 at 8:29 AM (PDT)

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Frankly, I don’t understand how cnet could pick the vision:m as the best of show. I guess now we know where sim wong hoo’s 100mil went to.
The ipod is not the best DAP, but compare both side by side, the ipod is still better than the creative. The iriver is still my favourite though.

Posted by dartht on January 9, 2006 at 8:33 AM (PDT)

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Either way, I’m sure Steve Jobs won’t lose one moment’s sleep over this thing.  Besides, by Tuesday afternoon, nobody will even remember this story anyway and the Zen will be back page news once again…

Posted by RC on January 9, 2006 at 8:49 AM (PDT)

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I think this preference war is ridiculous.  If you like something get it, if you don’t then don’t.  When some of you reach your late twenties or thirties, you’ll realize that you wasted so much of your time/energy on silly s*** like a damned preference debate.  If you are are past thirty and seriously miffed because someone said they liked something you don’t or didn’t like something you do, please seek counseling…

Finally, iPod killer is officially so 10 minutes ago…

Posted by Armandable on January 9, 2006 at 9:43 AM (PDT)

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OK,

1) just because you use and appreciate Apple products, you are not a fanboy, member of a cult, or in love with Steve Jobs.  Nor have people who buy Apple products been brainwashed by Apple marketing.  All these tired reasons for bashing Apple and Apple products really really insult the intelligence of millions and millions of people who actually pay their own hard-earned money to buy an iPod.  The reason they do this is superior hardware / software integration which leads to a superior user experience.  Translation:  Apple “gets it” and makes products that are typically a joy to use.  Sony and Microsoft products—typically—excude greed and mediocrity from every pore of their being.  I mean come one Sony, its 2006 last time I checked—and your players STILL don’t support MP3 natively (oh they’ll play MP3 alright, but once you dig into it a bit you realize the Sony chips and software are STILL designed to play ATRAC-3 best, and only play MP3 after conversion / downsampling. MP3s sound like crap on any current Sony digital music device.

OK my second point—CNET has been a Microsoft whore and iPod basher since day one.  They practically invented the term “iPod Killer” and used to run almost daily articles about the death of the iPod or the death of Apple. Anyone with a shred of intelligence could tell who was paying CNET and what their agenda was.  For them to embrace the iPod was merely a long overdue acknowledgment of reality—and a strategy to try and regain some legitimacy in the eyes of readers who had grown disgusted with CNET’s obviously slanted form of “journalism”.  For CNET to praise Creative’s blatant , pathetic and ill-fated attempt to rip of the video iPod as the “best in show” at CES merely confirms that CNET has not changed at all. And their fat-cow editor Molly even went so far as to say the Creative player is cheaper than the video iPod, which is factually incorrect.  I guess when you’re a whore, you say what the man who is paying you wants.

Anyway, neither Creative or CNET pass the “smell test”—they’re both third-rate has-beens who deserve each other. My respect for CNET has fallen even lower, and that is saying alot.

Posted by Bruce M. on January 9, 2006 at 10:57 AM (PDT)

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“Creative’s blatant , pathetic and ill-fated attempt to rip of the video iPod”

Aaaaannd you lost all credibility.  The Zen M was designed before the video iPod was released.  Only a fanboy would say something so unbelievably untrue and idiotic just to defend Apple.

I’m an iPod owner and an iPod/iTunes lover.  Three times over.  Knowing the iPod is a superior MUSIC player doesn’t make me dumb enough to think the Zen M was designed, prototyped, manufactured and shipped to stores AFTER the “video” iPod was released.

Are you that dumb?

Posted by stark23x on January 9, 2006 at 11:04 AM (PDT)

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Stark23x—oh really, the Zen M was designed before the video iPod was released?  And you are basing this on what Creative’s chairman told the press?  I give Creative’s chairman, based on his long history of crazy rants and raves (last year he was going to bury Apple and Ipod with “superior marketing” ... still holding my breath on that one) about as much credibility as a North Korean dictator claiming he’s gonna destroy America in a sea of nuclear fire.  And Creative’s chairman showed how little he still gets it when he called his company a “true technology company” and Apple merely a “branding company”.  If anyone thinks that Apple’s branding is the reason for it’s success, they’re seriously retarded.  I mean, the iPod?  What a stupid name, and what does it even mean?  For something named “iPod” to have succeeded, it must have been a seriously good product.  I find most of Apple’s advertising to be merely wallpaper—not very compelling. People buy iPods and Apple products mostly on word-of-mouth and by actually trying them out at Apple stores. I doubt orange billboards with black silhouettes of cracked-out dancers sells many iPods or could sell any other product for that matter.

Posted by Bruce M. on January 9, 2006 at 11:15 AM (PDT)

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Not only is the zen HUGE but its also has an adapter for you to charge and sync the thing! so if you are in a parking lot and see a parking spot, just throw in the zen with its adaptor to prevent other cars parking in it!

Posted by bobby2k on January 9, 2006 at 11:16 AM (PDT)

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What people fail to realize is that iTunes is an important factor behind the force of the iPod. Apple created a killer application that makes the transfer of songs, photos, contacts, calenders incredibly seamless and intuitive! And it’s included in Apple’s operating system! It’s all about the flow! Apple got it right! Good luck catching up Creative. . . . Apple left you choking on exhaust fumes!

Posted by Danny M. on January 9, 2006 at 11:27 AM (PDT)

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Pathetic is the only word that springs to mind right now. Armandale is absolutely correct. This is utterly puerile and childish and in the end it doesn’t matter one jot whether CNET has awarded this prize to the Vision:M. The sun will still come up tomorrow and your ipods aren’t going to explode in your hands following this announcement, although it has to be said that for some of you, perhaps that wouldn’t be such a bad thing.

Bruce, dartht - accusations of bias or being on the payroll are ridiculous, more so because you need to provide evidence to support your claim. If this was something that acutally mattered then you could well be liable for slander. With a simple search I found evidence of CNET’s high regard for the iPod. Statement like this just make you look foolish and I’m sure that in pite of your hyterically irrational posts here, you’re by and large rational, calm people. But right now you come across an crazed fanatics and really I wouldn’t want you anywhere near my children.

So they use the term ipod killer. So what???!!! The ipod is the benchmark and so all other products will be measured against it. We all know it’s an overused and abused catch cry and nothing more that resonates with the unthinking masses and ensure that people read the article and the advertisers are conquently happy. It’s intentionally sensational and provocative because frankly that gets people interests.

Don’t get you’re knickers in a knot about it.

In the end what CNET is saying is that finally the competition is shaping up and choice of alternatives to the ipod (asnd what pray tell is wrong is choice?) is getting keener. This in turn will no doubt spure Apple on to create a more compelling product so if you decide to buy another ipod with the next generation then hey presto! You win because the competition may finally be compelling Apple to not take their enormous market share for granted. 

Perhaps some of you need sit down and think about what’s really important in life.

By all means rationally debate the merits of CNET’s award but put it in perspective. This isn’t worth a flame war. It just makes you look like idiots…

Posted by unit on January 9, 2006 at 1:53 PM (PDT)

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I don’t care what CNet says…because the Creative Zen line is not gonna beat out the iPod.  You ask why?  Because branding does everything.  Walk in to any store where they sell electronics.  Most of the accessories are for the iPod.  iPod is like THE MP3 player.  Nothing else will stand a chance because iPod is already so well known, so popular, the “it” MP3 player.  No offense to fans of Creative ( :  It’s just that iPod is, and probably will always be, the most popular MP3 player out there.  Like, even though the Creative Zen Nano has the same amount of memory as a shuffle, is smaller, and has a screen (and the Zen Nano comes in different colors), what’s everyone buying?  The shuffle, of course.  If it’s by Apple, they want it.  Apple is more popular.

Branding does everything (well, almost).  This is just what I feel is the truth.  I am not trying to offend anyone, but this seems to be the way it turns out in the world.  So no offense, Creative fans.  ( :  Or Apple fans.  ( :

Posted by nixiecoolgirl on January 9, 2006 at 2:34 PM (PDT)

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“Stark23x—oh really, the Zen M was designed before the video iPod was released?”

Yes.  It;s physically impossible for the unit to have been designed, prototyped, revised, manufactured and shipped to stores AFTER the “video” ipod.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is pretty damn dumb when it comes to how consumer electronics get made.  That’s not even taking into account the fact that there have been dozens of portable video players BEFORE Apple.

It’s a stupid argument against the Zen M, and it makes iPod users look like rabid fanboy idiots.  Stick to features and function when you make your argument.  Claiming it’s a copy of the iPod makes you look stupid.

Posted by stark23x on January 9, 2006 at 3:24 PM (PDT)

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stark23x, what I’d say has happened is that approximately 12 months ago Creative’s marketeers and developers begun to speculate on what Apple would release with it’s 5G iPods.

It wasn’t difficult even for the lay person to predict that Apple would release a product with video capabilities - most people in the media predicted this as well as more than a few people on this forum anf others. Nor was it at all difficult to predict that in doing so they would support a limited set of formats (Quicktime obviously) and have downloadable video content through iTMS.

You don’t have to be a genius people to have predicted all this. And Creative would hire people dedicated to pre-empting and predicting what their competition’s next move would be and suggesting a course of action. Apple no doubt also has such people on it’s payroll too but being in such a dominant position it’s far easier for Apple to set it’s own pace while keeping an ever watchful eye on the competition.

What Creative have done is say let’s try to gazump the impending 5G ipod, take what they anticipated it to have as a feature-set and expand upon it (more video-file formats, more choice of services, FM-radio etc). Ergo the Vision:M.

Posted by unit on January 9, 2006 at 4:20 PM (PDT)

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This all makes me laugh how serious people take it.  Anybody remember the headline?  BAM!  1,000,000+ comments.  I can just imagine….Dennis, Jerrod, and Jeremy must be having some day seeing all the hits that an article has just because it has the words ‘iPod’ and ‘killer’ next to each other. Good ploy to get traffic guys. It worked.

Posted by Jegero on January 9, 2006 at 4:56 PM (PDT)

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So Creative pre-emptively copied a video ipod a year before it was released, when Jobs was still saying “We will never do a video iPod, no one wants it,” that’s the story now?

Wow, this gets dumber and dumber every time a fanboy tries to swing it for Apple.

Apple copied everyone who came before them in the music player/video player arena then.  Apple is a copycat company by your logic.

Posted by stark23x on January 9, 2006 at 5:17 PM (PDT)

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i’m guessing those ppl who hate ipods like the James D’s and ohitson’s are just trying to not follow the crowd of: just because im writing a comment doesn’t mean i have to think that ipod’s are better than others on the market and worship them.

Posted by who really cares what my name is? on January 9, 2006 at 7:34 PM (PDT)

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People can say that Creative copied Apple, or vice-versa.  I admit that Creative has a tad bit more features than the iPod, but no matter how good it is, it won’t capture the attention of the general public. Why?  Because of weak marketing.  Marketing has always been Apple’s strength.  And Creative?  Little marketing presence.  I’m afraid that if Creative does step up their marketing, it might be too late, because the general public is smitten with the iPod, and when they see Creative players, they will probably still go with the iPod because it is a safer bet.  And the general public also does not know what h264 is or has no idea what DivX or Xvid are, nor do they care.  And from what I’ve heard from lots of people, they are sick of radios, and that they bought the iPod so that they wouldn’t have to listen to radios.  I’m not an Apple fanboy nor a Creative fanboy.  I’m just a guy who sees things as they really are with no biased opinion.  Believe me, I love both the iPod and the Zen series.  But the truth is, Apple may have many years of domination to come until the competition comes up with something so revolutionary that it’ll knock the iPod off of its throne.

Posted by JV on January 9, 2006 at 7:44 PM (PDT)

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CNet has been talking up the competition for at least a couple of years.

Whenever Cooley appears on CNBC, he talks about how iPod doesn’t have FM radio or voice recording.

Who advertises the most on CNet?  I really don’t know but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s someone other than Apple.

Posted by wco81 in West Coast on January 9, 2006 at 8:26 PM (PDT)

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“you’re braindead, as always.”

Brilliant rebuttal.  Care to deal in facts or are you just here for the insults?

Posted by stark23x on January 9, 2006 at 10:06 PM (PDT)

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“So Creative pre-emptively copied a video ipod a year before it was released, when Jobs was still saying “We will never do a video iPod, no one wants it,â€? that’s the story now?

Wow, this gets dumber and dumber every time a fanboy tries to swing it for Apple.

Apple copied everyone who came before them in the music player/video player arena then.  Apple is a copycat company by your logic.” - stark23x

Sorry but is this addressed to me? If so, then I’m afraid you’ve seriously misunderstood my post, my previous posts, and to label me a fanboy amounts to a weak and grossly inaccurate strawman argument.

I for one can tell you that I’m most definitely NOT a fanboy of any product. I currently own an Iaudio M3 which serves my needs. I’ve owned a 2Gb Nano briefly but soon sold it. For now the M3 serves me well and if something comes along from ANY manufacturer that better serves my needs then I’ll consider it.

As I said in a previous post, a little research helps avoid a liberal dose of egg being applied to one’s face. If you took the time to reread my posts then you’d soon realise that I loathe fanboyism and evangelists generally, especially concerning something so mind-numbingly trivial as a DAP. Why not have a look now since you didn’t take the time earlier. You’ll se that the label of fanboy isn’t one you can apply to me.

—————

‘Preemptively copied’ are your words, not mine. I made no such statement. I merely stated a position of fact and surmised a possible course of development for the Vision:M from there.

It is a fact that companies employ teams of people to predict what their competition might do in 1 year, 5 year, and 10 year’s time. It doesn’t take a genius to predict that Apple may well consider a video capable ipod and given Apple’s previous generation have merely been refinements and gradual iterations rather than radically different products to their predecessors, then it’s quite easy to predict it’s features.

This isn’t a statement of bias. If you’ve spend any time in the product and service business you would know that a large part of what it done behind the scenes involves monitoring and predicting your competition. Tell me, given that Creative considers Apple to be it’s greatest competitor that they wouldn’t employ people to determine it’s and other comeptitors moves?

How that information or assessment is used is another matter but predicting the strategic moves of your competition makes good business sense. It would have undoubtedly been one of MANY considerations in developing the Vision:M.

I care not one iota about this petty asnd ridiculous flame war. I was merely positing a logical assessment givne my knowledge and experience of how a sensible business operates. Think again abnout how ridiculous ‘pre-emptively copied’ is, both in it’s application to my statement and as an oxymoronic statement. Anything that exists before a like product CANNOT therefore be Pre-emptively copied

Accuastions of bias against CNET are as I said childish and silly. The fact is it’s a personal assessment by the reviewer and no more. You’re entitled to feel to agree or disagree but always consider the logic or lack of behind your position.

No doubt the Vision:M is a compelling product and has merit but whether it tempts you to trade in your existing DAP for it is entirely up to you and you alone. If you choose to or not to then you’re existing ipod, creative, iriver or whatever will still continue to serve your needs, tomorrow the sun will still rise, and this pathetic and utterly banal squabble between people who should know better and should clearly get out more will be forgotten.

My parting words to the fanboys is, get some perspective and grow up.

Posted by unit on January 10, 2006 at 4:55 AM (PDT)