JukePod: Rent an iPod music service | iLounge News

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JukePod: Rent an iPod music service

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By Dennis Lloyd

Publisher, iLounge
Published: Wednesday, March 17, 2004
News Categories: iPod

“Aimed at retail establishments, bars, salons & cafés, JukePod offers a loaded 15GB iPod (under Apple warranty) with users being able to select from over 3,000 album titles. iPods are updated each month with the subscribers’ picks.

At just $100 per month, the JukePod system provides you with the means to offer a diverse and intelligent music library—$45,000 worth of crystal clear digital music delivered on Apple’s amazingly sleek and intuitive iPod. And the library keeps growing. The JukePod service model is just as impressive. We help you choose your music based on your customer demographics, update your music once a month, provide technical support, even digitize your own CDs and transfer them to the iPod.”

Note that in order to comply with intellectual property and copyright laws, subscribers need to hold a “blanket license” from ASCAP and/or BMI, just as they do currently to play their own CDs or a jukebox in a public forum.

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Comments

1

You won’t be around for long considering what you are doing is totally illegal.

Posted by See Ya on March 17, 2004 at 2:09 PM (PDT)

2

You seem quick to assume that they’re doing something illegal… how do YOU know that the proper royalties aren’t being paid?

Posted by people are dumb on March 17, 2004 at 2:14 PM (PDT)

3

Actually since you have to hold the “blanket” license this isn’t illegal.  If you had actually looked at the website you’d see that it’s target customers are bar/club/restraunt owners who wish to provide background music.

Since these places already hold licenses to play music (ASCAP and BMI), this is not illegal.

Posted by mkoby on March 17, 2004 at 2:15 PM (PDT)

4

mkoby, you don’t know what you’re talking about.  The BMI/ASCAP blanket licenses do not permit you to copy the music, only to play it in public.  BMI and ASCAP don’t own the right to make copies of CD’s, and accordingly can’t grant any such right to their licensees.  That’s why jukeboxes in bars include original, purchased CD’s, rather than CDR copies.

Posted by Rich on March 17, 2004 at 2:36 PM (PDT)

5

Actually I do know what I’m talking about, thank you.  What this service is (which if you people would actually LOOK at the website instead of just reading the news article), is a jukebox replacement service.

I’m aware that the blanket license doesn’t allow you to copy CDs, but it does allow you to put your own CDs in the jukebox correct?  So if I owned a bar, got the ASCAP/BMI blanket lisences, and used my iPod (with music from MY personal CD collection), this is perfectly legal.  Because I already paid for my license and I own the CDs that are on the iPod.

This is also no different from someone paying for a jukebox, loading it up with a bunch of CDs (all original and purchased of course) and then renting that jukebox out to a restraunt/bar/etc that has the blanket license.

The only way this would be illegal is if music you played didn’t fall under ASCAP or BMI and thus an artist wasn’t getting paid.

Posted by mkoby on March 17, 2004 at 3:05 PM (PDT)

6

Actually, mkoby, it seems that *you* haven’t looked at the website. They will load music which you do not own on the ipod.

Posted by Juan on March 17, 2004 at 4:03 PM (PDT)

7

What I said that Juan apparently missed

“This is also no different from someone paying for a jukebox, loading it up with a bunch of CDs (all original and purchased of course) and then renting that jukebox out to a restraunt/bar/etc that has the blanket license.”

Posted by mkoby on March 17, 2004 at 4:04 PM (PDT)

8

And the website itself addresses this issue.

From the website’s FAQ
Q: Do I need to be concerned about copyright issues?

A: There is no difference between using your own CDs in your establishment versus a JukePod when it comes to US copyright law. To be in full compliance with the law, the medium of the music delivery (e.g. cassette, CD, iPod) is unimportant—what matters is whether you have a license from one or both of the two major music publishers’ groups (ASCAP and BMI). The most popular license for restaurants and taverns is a GENERAL BLANKET LICENSE which will cost a few hundred dollars and is good for one year. According to BMI’s website:


“There’s more to playing music in your Restaurant or Nightclub than hiring a band or turning on a CD or tape. And that’s where BMI can help. The service we provide helps businesses like yours comply with the U.S. copyright law by granting the copyright clearance required to publicly perform copyrighted music. Under the law, when a business or other organization wishes to play music publicly, meaning outside a normal circle of friends or family, they must first obtain permission from the music’s copyright owners. BMI’s service enables you to access the music of more than 300,000 songwriters, composers, and music publishers (approximately 4.5 million musical works) through just one agreement. That saves you the time and expense of contacting each and every songwriter for their permission. And because this agreement was developed with input from your industry trade associations, it was designed to fit the way music is used in most restaurants and nightclubs.”

Posted by mkoby on March 17, 2004 at 4:10 PM (PDT)

9

You are right, I had missed that (sorry). I agree that it is no different from that. But aren’t both things illegal? *They* don’t have the right to rent you the music, even if they own it.

Posted by Juan on March 17, 2004 at 4:12 PM (PDT)

10

I saw that on the website, but it doesn’t address the concern that they don’t have the right to rent you the music. They say that “There is no difference between using your own CDs in your establishment versus a JukePod when it comes to US copyright law. To be in full compliance with the law, the medium of the music delivery (e.g. cassette, CD, iPod) is unimportant—what matters is whether you have a license from one or both of the two major music publishers’ groups (ASCAP and BMI).” Well, surely another thing that matters is whether you *own* the music, right?

Posted by Juan on March 17, 2004 at 4:14 PM (PDT)

11

doesn’t anyone here remember mp3.com???

They had a service that verified that YOU had a physical copy of a particular music CD, then allowed you to access the MP3 encoded version of that file from their website.

MP3.com had a LEGALLY PURCHASED COPY of the CD, and YOU had a LEGALLY PURCHASED COPY of the CD as well.

Thing is, IT DIDN’T MATTER! It was Illegal, and MP3.com was fined for over ONEHUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!


http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/10584.html

http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/09/14/mp3.com.ceo.idg/

Posted by steve on March 17, 2004 at 4:36 PM (PDT)

12

http://www.jukepod.com/details.html

“Your iPod is the all-new 3rd generation model with no moving parts so there’s nothing to wear out!”

Hmmm. Obviously they have access to some new, improved 3G with Flash RAM instead of a spinning magnetic disk.

Posted by Dumbos on March 17, 2004 at 7:05 PM (PDT)

13

mkoby = JukePod?

Posted by pltfo on March 17, 2004 at 7:07 PM (PDT)

14

Can’t be too legit.  Made up address, phone number.

WHOIS:

Registrant:
BB
123 Any Street
Your Town, KY 33229
US

Domain name: JUKEPOD.COM

Administrative Contact:
  Binkins, Bobby .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
  123 Any Street
  Your Town, KY 33229
  US
  123-456-7890
Technical Contact:
  Admin, Domain .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
  398 Keroack
  St-Bruno, QC J3V 5S1
  CA
  +1.8778070076

Posted by noforge on March 17, 2004 at 7:14 PM (PDT)

15

It’s also toatally pointless. Why can’t you just get a 40 gig iPod, fill it up yourself, and play it for months. Dumb idea, and it looks like a dishonest person is trying to take advantage of people.

Posted by Dasein on March 17, 2004 at 8:51 PM (PDT)

16

Another fine example of the totally worthless ######## “news” on this site!

Hey, lets advertise the existance of a totally corrupt operation and call it “news”

Whatever…

Posted by BJ McGee on March 17, 2004 at 9:42 PM (PDT)

17

This is not an new idea. When the ipod first came out, TechTv (I think) did a story on a record store owner who offered the same service. Since he owned a record store, he already had music licensing rights.

Posted by dm on March 18, 2004 at 3:29 AM (PDT)

18

There are 2 parties that need to be taken care of when it comes to copyrighted music played in bars and restaurants - Jukepod has only considered one of them- BMI and ASCAP, the second is the labels that produce the CDs.  BMI and ASCAP take care of the royalties that are tied to music being played in a public place. 

Bars and restaurants normally rent CD jukeboxes from vendors who actually have to buy the CDs for each jukebox they own.  They pay a fraction of the cost, due to volume of their purchasing and the fact that they purchase a bare bones CD and the track listing and not the full CD packaging.  Normal rental of a Jukebox (in NYC) is $300 a month.  The responsibility of purchasing the CD is up to the vendor who rents out the jukebox.  The fact that Jukepod has spent $45,000 is admirable, but truly, for this to be perfectly legit, they would need to own a copy of each CD for each ipod they put music on.  Not 1 CD that produces MP3s that can be put onto 100s of ipods, this is truly a 1 to 1 ratio here - 1 CD must be owned for each ipod it gets loaded onto, to be in full compliance with the laws surrounding jukeboxes.

Using the Jukepod reasoning, companies like NetFlix would be able to purchase one copy of a DVD and then copy it as much as they wanted and distribute it to households, as long as they held one master copy of the DVD - that just doesn’t work.  My guess is that Jukepod gets away with this ploy for a couple years before someone stops them, and maybe in that time, they can go legit and purchase all of the source CDs for all of the ipods that they rent. 

Posted by k-rock in USA on March 18, 2004 at 5:07 AM (PDT)

19

One addition to my comments above— I don’t know if this intentionaly meant to be creative wording or if this is an oversight by Jukepod.

From their website:  “There is no difference between using your own CDs in your establishment versus a JukePod when it comes to US copyright law.”  This sentence is absolutely true—Jukepod is in full compliance with copyright laws when an establishment uses their OWN cds in the ipod, as they own the source material they have the right to play it in whatever format they want. 

If Jukepod supplies the music, it is not in compliance.  Jukepod would be better off digitizing the CD collections of establishments and creating playlists for them on the rented ipod. 

The only way that these guys are fully legit is if they are buying music from the iTunes music storem as music purchased there can be played on an unlimited number of ipods (review the rights of the iTMS buyer)- if this is your plan- BRAVO! 

Posted by k-rock in USA on March 18, 2004 at 5:33 AM (PDT)

20

I really wish I could edit posts here- I know I should think things through before I write, sorry.  In the “fair use” provision of Copyright law, even songs purchased at ITMS would be breaking the law. 

Fair use stipulates that the copyrighted work must be “distributed without charge”.  Rental of the ipod and the music on it would not be in compliance here. 

Jukepod people - approach bars and restaurants that run their own CD players and have CDs in their establishments—this is your target audience if you want to stay legit.  Rip their collections and create playlists for them.  They might still pay you $100 a month for this service plus a setup fee for the ripping time.

Posted by k-rock in USA on March 18, 2004 at 6:07 AM (PDT)

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