RIAA warns consumers of selling pre-loaded iPods | iLounge News


RIAA warns consumers of selling pre-loaded iPods

The Recording Industry Association of America is warning consumers that it is illegal to sell a used iPod that is pre-loaded with digital content. “Selling an iPod pre-loaded with music is no different than selling a DVD onto which you have burned your entire music collection,” the RIAA said in a statement to MTV News. “Either act is a clear violation of U.S. copyright law. The RIAA is monitoring this means of infringement. In short: seller beware.”

Andrew Bridges, a lawyer who specializes in copyright and trademark law, says the law is not so clear. “It really depends on the individual circumstances,” he explained. “I’m not sure the law is settled. If I’m a college student and I want to supplement my income by buying 100 iPods and taking my CD collection and putting it on those iPods and selling them at a significant premium, that’s probably not going to fly. But if I’ve had my iPod Shuffle for two years and I’m tired of it and I go out and buy a 60 gig video iPod and want to sell my old Shuffle, but don’t want to purge the music first, that’s probably legal.”

“There is very clear provision in the statute that says that if you are in possession of a copy that has been lawfully made, you can distribute that copy without violating the copyright holder’s copyright,” said Bridges. “That seems to suggest that there shouldn’t be a case against a casual user disposing of copies they made for personal use when one is getting rid of one’s own iPod.”

RIAA President Cary Sherman disagrees. “Unlawful reproduction or distribution is infringement.” he said. “There is no fair use when someone is getting a complete copy of a work, especially a creative work and especially when it could have an adverse impact on the marketplace for selling or licensing that work. When you buy a CD, you have it for personal use on your computer or iPod, but you can’t give it away and keep it for yourself. That’s having your cake and eating it too. If everyone did that, [record labels] would only sell one CD.”

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Maybe the RIAA would like to provide us with a “0000” writing tool for the ipod, since a formatted ipod still has all it’s files intact until they get written over…

The iPod is a HDD.  If it’s been low-level formatted, it’ll be blank, but the intialization that is performed on the ipod still leaves the ipod with data on it. 

I wonder how long the RIAA will take before they address issues like this. 

It’s as if we’re suddenly responsible for our garbage…

Posted by dvddesign on February 13, 2006 at 4:17 PM (CST)


I have no respect for RIAA anymore as I believe others feel the same way. Their underhanded and greedy ways have me feeling that hey deserve and bad or misfortunate thing that should happen to them both Legal or not legal. They made their own bed, now they have to sleep in it.

Posted by dozx on February 13, 2006 at 4:29 PM (CST)


I’m really surprised taht you guys are against this. Of course it’s not legal. The only way it would be is if you gave them the origanal cds you got at the store.
I have to be sympathetic to the person that wouldn’t know how to erase the songs, but I’ve seen people saying “buy this ipod, comes with 10,000 songs free!”.

Posted by Jonathan Keim on February 13, 2006 at 4:40 PM (CST)


Just on the face of it, I can see how it’s of questional legality, but you know what?  Just because the RIAA doesn’t want me to do it means that I have this urge to actually do it.  That’s how much I hate them.  It saddens me to think this, but it really seems like they are going out of their way to make everyone (their customers) hate them.  It just baffles me that they continue to rant and rave like this.  For once just shut up!

Posted by m.sherman on February 13, 2006 at 4:43 PM (CST)


Oops - just sold one…

Posted by Solo on February 13, 2006 at 4:54 PM (CST)


I still own the first CD I ever bought, “Soda Fountain Shuffle” by Earl Klugh, and that was in 1985. The price (the sticker is still attached) was $16.95. I have recent CDs with the same price point.
21 years later, the consumer is still at the mercy of corporate greed.
My message to RIAA: You’re shovelling doo-doo against the tide.

Posted by Congo Billy on February 13, 2006 at 4:59 PM (CST)


almost sold my 4g 20 gig on ebay since i got a 60 gig 5g. i was planning to sell it for around 150 usd which was a good price for a used ipod of that condition.

yes..it was full and this was the reason i wanted to sell my ipod in the first place. if the buyer wants to keep the music then he gets a lot out of it. if not then theres nothing there.

this seemed legal to me right? isnt this a fine line between legal and not so legal? the new owner wouldnt be able to keep the music anyway if he/she wants to sync it.

oh well…ended up just giving it to my brother.

Posted by johann on February 13, 2006 at 5:01 PM (CST)


If Mariah Carey wants to make $1 Million a year, she can always do that. Who says she must make $20 Million?

Who says Sony must make $500 Million or whatever?

Carey Sherman is wrong. If I buy the Newspaper and I let 6 other people read it, that doesn’t mean I violate the Newspaper rights. If I watch a movie 5 weeks after it came out on video for $2.49 instead of paying $10 to see it in the movie theatre, did I violate any right? I don’t think so.

If the music industry made the pricing low enough (5 - 10 cents per song) no one would ever think of copying from one another. Buying a ‘loaded’ iPod is more a matter of convenience rather than infringing on copy rights. Even the software industry learned this lesson and most vendor sell software for a fair price.
Why should I pay a Dollar for a song I will listen to 5 times in 10 years? It doesn’t cost me anything to listen to a song on the radio.

Posted by nyalien on February 13, 2006 at 5:04 PM (CST)


is it me or is that whole thing very contradicting. i mean check it out. it’s right there.

“There is very clear provision in the statute that says that if you are in possession of a copy that has been lawfully made, you can distribute that copy without violating the copyright holder’s copyright,

Posted by brett on February 13, 2006 at 5:26 PM (CST)


johann, actually its pretty easy to copy music from ipod to pc. You don’t even need any special software, so new owner would be able to keep the music.

Posted by pessoa00 on February 13, 2006 at 5:28 PM (CST)


What the RIAA fails to realize is that stealing can lead to purchasing.  I stole music for much of the late 90s and early 00s - until the RIAA put nasty fines on people sharing files.  What the RIAA doesn’t realize is that by sharing music you can create a thirst in a listener - a thirst to find more and more music, which in the long run helps the RIAA.  When someone buys an Ebayed iPod and there is some music that they don’t own on there they could get turned on to bands and genres that they never would’ve heard otherwise.  It is my belief that when this happens, a consumer will buy the next release (or back catalog) from this band.  Where is the crime in that?? 

The RIAA just will never get it.  Traditional labels and the RIAA are scrambling to stay relevant, it’s kind of sad to watch.

Posted by Crispin Glover on February 13, 2006 at 5:49 PM (CST)


I hate the RIAA. I don’t buy albums the “legal” way because I don’t want the RIAA getting my money. However I do feel a need to support the Artist. So I go to their concerts. Everyone knows that’s where artist actually make their money. Most of the money from cd’s goes to the Record label the artist gets like .10 to .40 cents per cd sold. The RIAA doesn’t care about the artist. The only reason why they have their panties in a bunch is cause THEY are losing money.

So with all that said I do agree with the RIAA on this. When people sell iPods with music it on them they usually charge a little extra or it’s a way to get people to buy that iPod. I highly doubt the person gets rid of the orginal copy. So really it’s just like selling bootleg cd’s on the street. It’s illegal. However I say do it anyway. Anything to mess with the RIAA. They’ve been robbing customers and music Artist for years. It’s their turn to get it.

Support your artist! Go to their concerts!

Posted by Glorybox3737 on February 13, 2006 at 5:50 PM (CST)


I agree with nyalien above. The RIAA should drop song prices to 5 - 10 cents a piece. I would even go so far as to suggest removing DRM all together. By doing this, you virtually put the P2P sites out of business when it comes to illegally sharing music. As it stands now, a large portion of the global population downloads music illegally for free… and guess what… the music has no DRM on it. You will never get the majority of these illegal music downloaders to stop when what you are offering as competition is DRM protected or “crippled”  music if you will at near CD prices. In the digital age, music is a ton cheaper for the RIAA to distribute via digital channels. Logic would say that these savings should be passed on to the consumer. By lowering prices, they might actually sell more. The RIAA seems to think that as technology advances and it is cheaper to manufacture and distribute product, they they can just keep the prices as inflated as ever. Consumers have had enough of this bully attitude by the RIAA. Show the consumers respect and then they will show you respect. Continue to wage war and they will wage war back. As it stands now, the RIAA is just as guilty as trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Posted by tobiwan on February 13, 2006 at 6:07 PM (CST)


Can you imagine in a few years… they’ll be attaching commercials to every single song on a CD just to squeeze a little money out of the deal. They are loosing money here and it is and should be illegal. The thing is that just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean that people won’t do it. It’s being made to seem like a battle but really it’s just news. It’s here and gone in an hour. I like buying CDs. I don’t like downloading. I like sharing CDs. I like burning them for my friends. I don’t think anyone will ever be able to actually stop that.

Posted by Werewolf on February 13, 2006 at 6:17 PM (CST)


This is the saddest representation of the buying public that I’ve read in a while.
You all justify stealing with all sorts of lame reality-bending drivel.
“...still own the first CD I ever bought, “Soda Fountain Shuffle

Posted by SB on February 13, 2006 at 6:35 PM (CST)


there is absolutely *nothing* to justify stealing music from the internet. passing it on pre-loaded is no exception. if one has an affinity for music (everyone on here must) then freakin pay for it. quit whining about how expensive it is. im a college student and money is tight for me too, so i simply made some sacrifices in order to support my love for music with cds. i stopped buying video games and stopped doing little things like going to the movies etc, and it has freed up the bucks to go to hmv and get a new cd every few weeks. it’s not difficult. 20 bucks with tax is not a lot of money. so put down your psp and quit wasting your money on something youll grow out of, because music never gets old. support the artists that you dig. the riaa isnt just out to get consumers. they are in place to protect artists, and create a network of companies through which most music is produced. without them, the music that you steal wouldnt even be there. so have some goddamn respect.

Posted by nick benko on February 13, 2006 at 7:42 PM (CST)


While we’re at it, may we dicuss the litigation in which record labels are the DEFENDANTS, for such acts as BRIBING radio stations to spin their pet records? How about I agree to not sell my pre-loaded iPod if and only if the record labels lavish me with Nike shoes, plasma screen TVs, and the other expenses that were provided for radio DJs that agreed to be bribed in exchange for playing said records.

Posted by John on February 13, 2006 at 7:50 PM (CST)


...record labels are clearly better at breaking laws than they are at interpreting them.

Posted by John on February 13, 2006 at 7:51 PM (CST)


Record companies don’t do that - individuals do it without the company knowing it.
A&R, promo, all those folks have interests in getting things played.
Record companies go after those that do it.
Talking out of your arses isn’t helping the fact that you’re thieves.


Posted by SB on February 13, 2006 at 8:09 PM (CST)


That’s funny—those must have been “out of the prosecuting attorneys’ arses” subpoenas that were issued to the execs of those record labels.

Posted by John on February 13, 2006 at 9:08 PM (CST)

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